网站地图
首页
新闻
电影新闻
电视新闻
人物新闻
专题策划
影评
最新影评
新片热评
经典赏析
媒体评论
电影院
北京影讯
上海影讯
广州影讯
深圳影讯
成都影讯
电影库
典藏佳片
全球新片
即将上映
票房榜
社区
日志
相册
电影
好友
专辑
收藏
影视杂谈
明星时尚
文化休闲
群组
话题
达人
排行榜
电影榜
电视榜
人物榜
日志榜
话题榜

L'Eclisse 蚀

您当前的位置: 社区>> 博客>>

编辑 | 删除 梦是唯一的现实:伊莎贝尔·于贝尔访谈

time 发布于:

伊莎贝尔·于贝尔访谈(by 让-米歇尔·傅东)

This interview is an excerpt of a long conversation in public between Isabelle Huppert and Jean-Michel Frodon, which took place at the cinema Café des images at Hérouville Saint-Clair, March 2, 2005. It was part of a series entitled “Seeing together (“Voir ensemble”) devoted to the métier of acting and organized by the association L’Exception, the Comédie of Caen, and the Café des images. Some of the questions are those of Jean-Michel Frodon, while others come from the public.
这个访谈为伊莎贝尔·于贝尔和让-米歇尔.傅东于2005年三月二日在圣克莱尔Hérouville的电影咖啡馆举行的公开访谈上摘录的对话节选,该次活动是一个致力于表演职业研究并由L’Exception协会组织的名为“共同观赏”的系列活动的组成部分。当中提问者为让-米歇尔·傅东,也有观众提问。

What information on a film and on your role do you need before beginning a shoot?
在开拍前,电影中和你角色上的哪些信息是你需要了解的?

A script, even it differs from filmmaker to filmmaker, never tells the whole story; there are always elements that need to be invented. As soon as one decides to take a role after having read the script, the various elements begin to fall into place. A character begins to take shape. And regardless of whether the information given is ample or not, it appears to one, strangely, as an apparition. From that moment, one knows whether or not this figure will be able to pass through one; if there is a meeting point.
剧本,甚至说剧本还存在分歧,或者故事没有成形;里面总会有些需要你自己创造的元素;当你读完剧本决定出演这个角色的时候,那些元素就各就各位了。一个角色也就成形了。不管这些信息是否有足够的广度,但对于一个角色来说,这些东西就如同鬼魂般离奇。从那刻起,演员就知道角色是否能否融入自己的身体;如果能找到一个好的结合点的话。

Chabrol has said that with the actors there are invariably power struggles, while with actresses the rapport is more one of seduction.
夏布罗尔曾说他和男演员之间总有权利争夺,而和女演员之间的默契超越了吸引力。

I think being actor is more difficult for men. The very best actors are not afraid of playing with their own femininity and leaving aside power struggles with the director. Because there’s no getting around it: on a film set, it’s the director who has the power. This fact is often more difficult to accept for an actor than for an actress.
我觉得当演员对于男性来说的确更加难。最好的男演员不害怕展现柔性的一面也不会和导演有权利争执。因为这是不言自明的:在电影拍摄过程中,导演才是掌权者。但这个道理往往男性较之女性更加难于接受。

In an interview, Chabrol commented: “Actors are often technically very astute; thus with Isabelle Huppert all I need to do is to say where I am going to put the camera for her to guess how the scene is going to be shot and what will be her place in the frame. With her, I never have to explain anything.
在一次采访中夏布罗尔说:“演员往往技术上十分圆滑;因此和于贝尔合作我所要做的就是告诉她我会在哪里放好摄影机,因为她能猜出这个场景将如何拍摄,还有她将出现在画面的什么位置。和她合作,我无需解释什么。”

This kind of symbiosis occurs when there is a real trust with the director. I would go so far as to call it a kind of belief. An actor, perhaps, will have more difficulty to let himself go with such a pact, which is almost spiritual in nature. You might say it’s the same kind of pact between the spectator and the film. Such strong words (“belief,” “pact”) are not meant to frighten. There is a scene in la Dentellière that illustrates this relationship. A young man pushes me along on the edge of a cliff while I’m blindfolded. It’s only once that he removes my blindfold that I know where I am. That’s how an actor advances with a director, in just such a state of blindness. An actor must have total confidence in the director, or not take the role.
这种合作关系产生于一种对导演的真正的“托付”。我想说这是一种“信任”。可能一个演员更加难以让自己按照这样一种实质上几近精神层次的契约行事。你可以说这其实与“电影和观众之间建立的契约”相似。这些韵味强烈的词汇(“信任”“契约”)并不是危言耸听,《编织女孩》中一场戏便可印证这种关系:一个年轻男子把我推到了悬崖的边上,而那时我正戴着眼罩。若非一次他摘下我的眼罩,我才不知道我身在何处。这便是在这样一种失明的状态下,一个演员和导演间的亲近状态。演员必须对导演有完全的信心,要么就不要接这个角色。

In the cinema, the frame can at any moment fragment the body, just the opposite of the theatre. Are you conscious of this fragmentation when you act?
在影片中,画面可以随时分割人的形体,正好和戏剧相反。在你表演时你会在意这些分割么?

No, one isn’t aware of it consciously. Body language in the cinema is thus very particular. The screen can transmit an image very different of the body. In life, we see each other by facing each other. In the cinema, one is astonished to discover oneself from another angle. But at the same time there is no obligation to look. Serge Daney used to say that the work of actors is the make movies, and the work of the spectator is to look at them.
不,没有人会去有意识的在意这个。电影中的身体语言因而十分独特。银幕能呈现与身体有着很大差别的画面。现实生活中我们面对面的看人。但在电影里,演员会惊讶于从另一个角度看到的自己.但与此同时也就失去了看的义务。塞尔日.达内常说演员的工作是拍,而观众的工作是看。

When there is a difficult scene to shoot, do you sometimes give advice between takes to the director as how best to shoot you?
当拍摄遇到困难时,你是否会在拍摄间隙提出意见使之能更加好的拍摄你?
 
No, if I have some suggestions to make, I give them while acting. There is not much to say between takes. You simply have to do them and sometimes re-do them. Of course, the strategy vis à vis the number of takes required varies enormously between filmmakers, from Chabrol who is often content with two or three takes to Haneke who made me do as many as forty-five. Jacques Doillon also does a lot, which provokes a certain fatigue and then it starts all over again. When the cinema is looking to seize an unfathomable nuance, you find something else. Maurice Pialat used to say that the best films are never seen, because they’re composed of what the camera never records, before “action” and after “cut.” He wanted to abolish the ritual surrounding each scene: clapperboard, action, etc. I rarely felt such a sentiment again. For instance, on Loulou, Gérard Depardieu and I both felt the moment when the scene should begin. Once the camera switched on without our being told. One morning, we were discussing in a café when the camera began shooting. It was extraordinary to switch over so abruptly into the scene with no forewarning.
不会,如果我有意见我会在表演的时候给出。在拍摄间隙很少说话。你只是简单的去演,有时候还要再重拍。当然,电影工作者间的方式和导演需要的镜头数量还是有很大差别的。从夏布罗尔总是很有把我的只拍二到三遍,到哈内克可能要我做45遍的都有。雅克.杜隆也老是拍很多遍,所以会导致些疲劳,然后休息完了再重新开始。当电影看上去有些难以言喻的微妙变化时,你就能发现些另外的东西。毛里斯.皮亚拉曾说最好的电影是永远不可见的,因为他们由那些摄影机从未纪录的事件组成,且发生在在“开机”之前和“停”之后。他想废除那些每场拍摄时候的仪式化氛围:开机板、喊开机,诸如此类,我很少能再次有这样的体验。比如在《Loulou》的拍摄过程中,杰拉德.德帕迪约和我都能感觉到该场应该何时开拍。有一次摄影机在没有告知我们的情况下就打开了。那是某天早晨,我们在咖啡馆讨论问题,这时摄影机便开始拍摄了。在没有打招呼的情况下,这种如此唐突的角色转换是很特别的感受。

What role does screening the rushes have for you? Do you intervene in the choice of more than one take of a scene?
在放映样片的时候你扮演一个什么样的角色?你会干预拍摄镜头的选择么?
Rushes are history! Ever since practically everyone started edited on video, there are no more rushes, and consequently this daily ceremony no longer exists, with its variable side effects. On the other hand, actors/actresses are always uneasy about the choice of takes in the editing; we find ourselves good in one take and ridiculous in another. We bargain with the continuity person so that she will retain the take that we prefer. Renoir used to say that if a film were to be re-edited with other takes, it would still be the same film. That’s rather a worrisome, don’t you think! (laughter). And Chabrol isn’t very far from thinking the same thing. Occasionally, I’ve asked him to redo a take: “Oh, my chérie, if you insist!” For him re-shooting such and such a scene doesn’t seem to change much.
看样片已经成为历史了!几乎所有人都用视频做剪辑,再也没有毛片了,因此这个日常的仪式连同它那些多种多样的副作用也就不复存在了。不过话说回来,演员总是对剪辑时的镜头选择存有顾虑;我们会发现在有些镜头里我们表现得很好,但是另外一些镜头看上去很糟糕。我们会和剪辑师商量,这样她会把我们喜欢的那些镜头放回去。雷诺阿曾经说如果一个电影换掉了几个镜头,那么这个电影将仍旧是原来那个电影。这真有点叫人担心,难道不是么?(笑)。夏布罗尔的想法也和这个差不多。偶尔我会要求他再来一遍,“哦,我的雪儿,如果你坚持这么做的话。”对他来说重拍这些和这样的场景不会改变什么。

Do you find it important to shoot scenes in their chronological order of the story?
你是否觉得按照剧本时间顺序拍摄十分重要?
 
Oddly, on a shoot, one always knows where one is. A two-hour film demands an enormous amount of shots, and in each shot it is not a question of rehearsing the entire film. In fact, the down times that are acted out of order are easier. The role is already in one’s head. It’s not a question constantly performing the whole role, but it nevertheless remains present overall, like a thread unwinding from a ball inside oneself. I feel intimately inside myself where the role belongs. It all happens easily, like having a baby! If I do not localize the role within myself, it’s impossible for me to find it in the course of the shoot.
这个问题真奇怪,在一次拍摄过程中,演员都知道他所在的位置。一个两小时的电影需要相当大数量的镜头,而每个镜头也不存在对整个电影进行预演的问题。事实上,反而不按照时间顺序进行表演比较容易。这无关角色的完整性,但在表演时却是要全面的阐释的,仿佛一条从线团当中抽出的细线。我能丝丝入扣地在自我当中感受角色之所在。这很容易实现,就像怀上孩子一样!如果我无法在我心里找到角色的位置,那么我在拍摄过程也不可能找到。

How do differentiate between acting in the theatre and acting in front of a camera?
戏剧表演和电影表演有什么区别?

In fact, I like to think that there is no great difference. In my work as an actress, I don’t even pose such a question. For the last few decades, the theatre spectator is identical with the cinema spectator. In the theatre, it is the spectator who, mentally, composes a close up, an establishing shot, and a close shot. Nevertheless, there are obvious differences. One of them concerns the voice: in the theatre, you have to speak louder. The spectator would be able to hear us speak more softly, if they listened closely, but the old convention in the theatre demanding that actors speak loudly, declaim, remains strong. Another important difference: in the cinema, one is able to assume new roles, more unsolicited, without thinking about the spectator. It’s easy enough to make believe that they have been invented. While in the theatre with Medea or Hedda Gabler, one enters into mythical realms, already performed many times over. It is in response to this phenomenon that I told myself that I had to be indifferent to all that. Medea is me. Hedda Gabler is me. No one knew her. We don’t know what she looked like. There’s no claim to say: “It’s me.” One can recognize oneself in an individual but not in a character; I play individuals, not characters. A character is an obstacle, an arbitrary contour. Afterwards, you need a director who understands, who doesn’t impose a pre-established vision, who remains open to my own interpretation.
事实上我倾向于认为两者区别甚微。作为演员,我甚至没有产生过这样的疑问。最近几十年来,戏剧观众与电影观众并无二致。戏剧观众会自觉在精神上组织特写、远景和近景。不过两者还是有区别的。其中一点便是声音:剧院里,你必须大声说话。如果观众仔细听的话,他们还是希望演员能够说话柔和点的,但是戏剧的旧传统要求演员大声说话、高声朗诵和强烈的形体动作。另一个重要的区别是:在电影中演员可以更加为所欲为的,不考虑观众感受地来假想出新的角色。这很容易叫人相信他们是被创造出来的。但在剧院里扮演“美狄亚”或者“海达.盖伯乐”,演员便进入到一个已被很多次演绎过的神话的领域。一种现象便会随之产生,我会和我自己说我必须和别人都不一样:美狄亚就是我,海达.盖伯乐就是我,没有人知道她们。我们都不知道她们是什么相貌。没有人说,“那是我!”演员只能将自己当成一个个体而非角色;我扮演的是一个个体,不是一类角色。角色是一种障碍,一个粗线条的轮廓而已。随后,你需要一个了解你的,不会强加给你一个预先设置好的角色的,对我自己的解释保留意见的导演。

You said: “It is because I have the capacity to watch the one watching me that I am able to create a space of resistance in which I am able to absent myself and exist as an actress.”Did this working method establish itself unconsciously or is it the result of years of work?
你说过,“正因为我有一种洞悉那个看着我的人的能力,使我得以建立一个使我可以保持不在场态度并以女演员的身份显现的隔离带。”这种表演方式是无意识形成的还是多年经验的成果?

I think I said this in a somewhat overly convoluted manner, but it’s true that I have a natural tendency to establish a distance, both with the person who is looking at me and with the role I am playing. This space creates a blank, a space wherein, perhaps, the spectator’s imaginary can be swept up. Creating such a space is useful for my work and it protects me: the person I am playing is me but not completely; fortunately, otherwise I’d end up in a psychiatric ward! It all remains a game, even if it is possible to push very far the appearance of truth. The disturbing confusion that can take place between a role and an actor, in the cinema as in the theatre, lends a certain force to the game and its appeal for the spectator. But an actor must himself avoid such confusion if he doesn’t want to lose himself.
我认为我说的这句话有点玄乎过头了,但我的确有一种保持距离的自然倾向,对人和对角色都是如此。这个空间创造了一块真空地带,在其中观众可以驰骋他们的想象力。创造这样的空间对我的工作有利,同时也保护了我:我扮演的觉得部分是我但不全然是;所幸如此,要不我会在精神病院结束我的表演生涯。这(表演)依旧仅是一个游戏,即使真实的表象可以被推进得非常极致。在戏剧和电影中发生的这种在演员和角色间的“烦人的混淆”会给游戏带某种必然的力量和对观众的诉求。但一个演员必须尽量避免这种混淆以免迷失自我。

Has it happened that you refused a role that seemed too far away from you, even though you appreciate the director and the script?
有否出现过这样的情况:即你虽然很欣赏导演和剧本,但因觉得角色和你有距离而拒绝出演呢?
Yes, for example, Haneke’s Funny Games. I wanted to work with him, but the script seemed to me a demonstration of the manipulative power of the director on his audience. He pushed the exercise so far that the characters exit the fiction and enter into an experimental process, which was extremely demanding to watch as well as to act. The terrible reproduction of a news item where a couple is tortured while a child is put to death. I didn’t accept the role. I had the impression that in this story without fiction, the actor would remain stuck in a sacrificial function similar to that of the person. I could have played this role, but I didn’t want to.
有的,比如哈内克的《滑稽游戏》,我想和他合作,但剧本在我看来是一种导演操纵观众的实证,他把这种方式推到了极致,以至于角色脱离了剧情而进入了一个“表演欲望和观赏欲望等同”的实验性阶段。故事是一个关于一对夫妇在孩子被杀后备受煎熬的新闻故事的可怕的复制品,我没有接受这个角色。我有种印象觉得这个故事没有剧情,演员将始终保持一种如同那人一样的自我伤害的状态。我原本可以表演这个角色,但是我没有。
                
 Isabelle Huppert伊莎贝尔·于贝尔
 

法国女演员。16岁跃登大银幕,70年代逐渐走红,成为享誉欧洲的女明  星。1977年以《编织的女孩》打开国际知名度,翌年凭《维奥莱特·诺齐埃尔》获戛纳最佳女演员奖。赴美主演大制作《天国之门》,可惜影片在市场上挫败,也影响了她进军好莱坞的星运。但迅速重新崛起。2001年因《钢琴教师》再度荣获戛纳影后奖。戏路宽广,非常多产,从天真型、性感型,到喜剧型,无所不包。把表演视作“发泄内心的疯狂”。

回复 (0) | 收藏 (0) | 271 次阅读 |

pnin (南京)

男 射手座

日志分类